Jul 2, 2020 · 534 posts · Joined 2012. #5 · Sep 13, 2016. 357 Magnum is superior to the 44 special in terms of more stopping power for self defense. The only reason the 357 Magnum is not a preferred cartridge to a semi-auto pistol is ammo capacity. Highboy. Magnum tonic wine is a grape-based wine produced in Jamaica that is infused with vitamins and minerals, intended to give the drinker a boost of energy. The wine was first produced ...When it comes to buying wine or spirits, one of the factors that often confuses consumers is the range of bottle sizes available. From miniatures to magnums, there are numerous nam... Energy. Furthermore, the muzzle energy of a .357 Magnum round averages out to 530 ft-lb, while a .460 S&W Magnum round averages out to about 2100 ft-lb. One way to think about this is as such: a foot-pound is a unit of energy equal to the amount of energy required to raise a weight of one pound a distance of one foot. Jan 2, 2021 · A comparison of two popular magnum revolver rounds based on their history, power, and practicality. Learn how the .357 Magnum is the most powerful 'normal' handgun round and the .44 Magnum is the most powerful handgun round most people will fire. The advantage runs from about 33% (.35 Rem. vs. .44 Mag.) to 88% (.30-30 vs. .357 Mag.) in favor of the true rifle cartridges. At longer ranges the advantage of the rifle cartridges is even greater. At 200 yards, for example, the 150 grain .30-30 bullet is still carrying 944 ft. lbs. of kinetic energy, while the 240 grain .44 Magnum bullet (the ... Nov 18, 2023 · The .44 Magnum and .357 SIG cartridges are both are made for Handguns.The .44 Magnum cartridge has a higher muzzle velocity than the .357 SIG cartridge by 200 feet per second.The .44 Magnum has a larger diameter than the .357 SIG by 0.075 inches.Lastly, the .44 Magnum cartridge has a longer length than the .357 SIG cartridge by 10.63 millimeters. The diameter of a .460 S&W Magnum cartridge is 0.452 inches (11.4808 millimeters). The .44 Magnum cartridge has a smaller diameter than the .460 S&W Magnum cartridge by 0.022 inches. The overall length of a cartridge determines how deep a bullet will sit in a case. The length of a .44 Magnum cartridge is 32.6mm millimeters.The .44 Magnum can pack up to 900-1000 pounds of energy upon firing, and the .45 ACP manages only 400-600 pounds. Logically, it means that the .44 Magnum has high recoil and can compromise on accuracy if you have to fire more than once. In contrast, the .45 ACP is best for firing multiple shots because of the low recoil.37.9gr. Max Pressure. 35,000psi. 36,000psi. The .357 Mag is a much smaller diameter bullet than its .44 Mag counterpart. While the case and overall length are similar, the .44 Mag is much wider and voluminous cartridge that can hold more powder and withstand a higher amount of pressure when the powder is ignited.Informational article on comparing the .44 Special and .357 Magnum for concealed carry and personal protection. ... .357 magnum. 180 gr JHP over 12.5 gr of WC820 clocks at about 1,013 fps for 410 foot pounds. To push it up to 747 foot pounds we would need to go to a TMJ round over 13.8 gr of VV N110 for 1,368 fps. Possible, but really hot and ...Feb 27, 2019 · The .41 Magnum was designed in 1964. .357 Magnum was introduced in 1934. .44 Magnum was produced in 1955. The .41 Remington Magnum is the best revolver cartridge. Period. When standard factory ammo is considered, the .41 delivers 25 percent more energy than the .357 Magnum with a wider, heavier bullet. This means it hits a target harder, makes ... Check out the numbers for the .44 Special and the .45 Colt if you prefer a revolver. Both are solid choices. If you have a short-barrel .44 Magnum, the .44 Special will have manageable recoil and still have plenty of power to get the job done. The .45 Colt (sometimes called “Long Colt”) has been around since 1873.The 9mm uses a .355 caliber bullet and, predictably, the 357 Magnum uses a .357 caliber projectile. On top of that, both rounds came to be for material use, with the 9mm intended for military forces and the 357 Magnum for police forces. Ultimately, both rounds have faithfully served in law enforcement roles, in concealed carry roles, and far ...About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features NFL Sunday Ticket Press Copyright ...The diameter of a .44 Magnum cartridge is 0.43 inches (10.922 millimeters). The diameter of a .357 Magnum cartridge is 0.357 inches (9.0678 millimeters). The .44 Magnum cartridge has a larger diameter than the .357 Magnum cartridge by 0.073 inches. The overall length of a cartridge determines how deep a bullet will sit in a case.Testing the Fort Scott TUI ammunition in .357 Magnum and .44 Magnum. The .357 Magnum is a 125 gr solid copper spun bullet rated at 1,424 FPS and the .44 Magn...We would like to show you a description here but the site won’t allow us.Rumrunners and mobile bank robbers of the day made officers conscious of this deficiency. The .357 Magnum is simple a .38 Special cartridge that has been lengthened by 1/8 of an inch. While it perhaps never exceeded the .38 Special in law enforcement use, the .357 Magnum was still among the most profuse options utilized by …Sep 24, 2008 · I have a Bisley Hunter in .44 and a BH in .357 (both SS). I have sighted in loads for both for deer season. The .357 is a XTP 158gr. at 1300fps for 25yrds. and less ranges, and .44 has 260gr. WFNGC at about 1100fps for shots to 50yrds. (my self limit). I'm hunting out of one of those port-a-potty like permanent blinds. Sep 24, 2008 · I have a Bisley Hunter in .44 and a BH in .357 (both SS). I have sighted in loads for both for deer season. The .357 is a XTP 158gr. at 1300fps for 25yrds. and less ranges, and .44 has 260gr. WFNGC at about 1100fps for shots to 50yrds. (my self limit). I'm hunting out of one of those port-a-potty like permanent blinds. Jul 30, 2021 ... Testing out the Remington UMC Jacketed Soft Point ammunition in .357 Magnum and .44 Magnum. The .357 Magnum is a 125 gr SJSP and the .44 ...The .44 Rem. Mag., .357 Mag., .454 Casull, .460 S&W Mag., and .500 S&W Mag. were developed for pistols but are also chambered in long guns. The .45-70 Govt. and the .444 Marlin are old-school lever gun cartridges. The .450 Bushmaster and .350 Legend were released in the last 15 years and can be found in semi-auto and bolt-action rifles.The .44 Magnum can pack up to 900-1000 pounds of energy upon firing, and the .45 ACP manages only 400-600 pounds. Logically, it means that the .44 Magnum has high recoil and can compromise on accuracy if you have to fire more than once. In contrast, the .45 ACP is best for firing multiple shots because of the low recoil.The 10mm packs a stronger punch and excels in long-distance shooting, while the .357 Magnum is known for its versatility and unfaltering performance. Nevertheless, the choice between these two stalwarts depends heavily on the individual’s needs, experience, and preference.The diameter of a .460 S&W Magnum cartridge is 0.452 inches (11.4808 millimeters). The .44 Magnum cartridge has a smaller diameter than the .460 S&W Magnum cartridge by 0.022 inches. The overall length of a cartridge determines how deep a bullet will sit in a case. The length of a .44 Magnum cartridge is 32.6mm millimeters.The diameter of a .44 Special cartridge is 0.43 inches (10.922 millimeters). The diameter of a .357 Magnum cartridge is 0.357 inches (9.0678 millimeters). The .44 Special cartridge has a larger diameter than the .357 Magnum cartridge by 0.073 inches. The overall length of a cartridge determines how deep a bullet will sit in a case.It also makes a better all around carbine round than the .44. Factory .357 loads will run about 1700fps or so in a carbine, while Buffalo Bore loads can reach 1800fps. These bring the .357 up near the power of the earliest .30-30 loads (160gr bullet @ 1900fps). Out to about 120 yards or so, it is a deer load.Nov 18, 2023 · The .44 Magnum and .357 SIG cartridges are both are made for Handguns.The .44 Magnum cartridge has a higher muzzle velocity than the .357 SIG cartridge by 200 feet per second.The .44 Magnum has a larger diameter than the .357 SIG by 0.075 inches.Lastly, the .44 Magnum cartridge has a longer length than the .357 SIG cartridge by 10.63 millimeters. A comparison of these two cartridges highlights a few noticeable differences. The .44 Magnum generally has a higher muzzle velocity, often exceeding 1,500 fps, whereas the .357 Magnum tends to max out around 1,450 fps. This, in turn, translates to greater energy transfer upon impact.The 357 Magnum’s case is 0.135-inch longer, and the cartridge is loaded to a MAP of 45,000 psi. The 357 Magnum’s longer case prevents 357 Magnum ammo from being loaded in 38 Special revolvers ...Apr 17, 2022 · 357 Magnum and 44 Magnum are BY FAR the 2 most popular Magnum Ammunition Rounds. THIS video looks at the benefits of BOTH!Your support is critical to our mi... The .44 Magnum boasts greater bullet weights for deep penetration combined with a wider frontal area as an aid to low velocity killing. On the other hand, the .357 Magnum can prove to be a vastly more emphatic killer than some of our more recent low velocity tactical rifle cartridge designs although the latter have superior trajectories.Not only was the 27-ounce .357 Magnum faster to fire, but the added controllability due to the weight and longer barrel, allowed for more/better hits. With the full-power .357 Magnum loads, the ...Energy. Furthermore, the muzzle energy of a .357 Magnum round averages out to 530 ft-lb, while a .41 Remington Magnum round averages out to about 760 ft-lb. One way to think about this is as such: a foot-pound is a unit of energy equal to the amount of energy required to raise a weight of one pound a distance of one foot.The .44 Magnum has a muzzle velocity of around 1,400 feet per second. In terms of energy, the .357 Magnum has slightly more energy than the .44 Magnum. When it comes to accuracy, both rounds are quite accurate. However, the .357 Magnum is often considered to be more accurate, and has less recoil, due to its slightly smaller size.About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features NFL Sunday Ticket Press Copyright ...It's time for part two of our Lever Action Rifle Series! Today, we're looking at .357 Magnum and .44 Magnum when fired from lever action rifles (in this case...The .357/44 Bain & Davis is a centerfire pistol cartridge designed in 1964 by Keith Davis, a partner and pistolsmith of the Bain & Davis Gunshop of San Gabriel, California. The purpose was to give improved velocity over the .357 Magnum by using the larger .44 Magnum case necked down to hold a 0.357 diameter bullet.The .357 Magnum ushered in what some writers have called the “Magnum era” in handgun ammunition. Remington introduced the .44 Magnum in 1955 and the .41 Magnum in 1964, capitalizing on the popularity of powerful revolvers for self-defense and hunting. From the 1950s until the 1980s, .357-caliber revolvers would become common police weapons.10mm vs 44 Magnum Cartridge Comparison. There are three important things to take away when you put the 10mm and the 44 Mag side by side. The first is their bullet diameters. While the 10mm ammunition is a true 40 caliber round with a .40” diameter bullet, the 44 Mag’s bullet is nearly .03” greater in diameter.Mar 19, 2024 ... 357 mag is perfect for anything you need, is 44 mag more powerful? Absolutely, do you need it? Probably not. 357 is far more affordable and ...Later, other magnums would be introduced like the 44 magnum, 32 H&R magnum, and eventually the 327 Federal magnum (as well as others) largely based on the work that Elmer Keith and the other early designers came out with back in the mid 30s. ... This 357 Magnum Rifle Ballistics Chart shows the 140 Grain Hornady FTX travels at …Magnum Revolver Calibers Match Up. When comparing three common loads of .41 Magnum, .357 Magnum and .44 Magnum, you can see that the .41 Mag. shoots much flatter and has 722 foot-pounds of energy at 100 yards. The .357 Magnum and .44 Magnum have 387 foot-pounds and 663 foot-pounds of energy, respectively. From a hunter’s perspective, at least ...Medicare is a critical component of healthcare, and it’s an essential piece of millions of people’s lives. With 44 million Americans currently on Medicare – and more signing up eac...The .357 was a collaborative development in the early 1930s based on the .38. It was designed by Elmer Keith, Phillip B. Sharpe, and Colonel D. B. Wesson from Smith & Wesson, and its use has become widespread since its introduction in 1934. The .357 Magnum was best known for its stopping power. The .357 Magnum addresses the …The .44 Magnum boasts greater bullet weights for deep penetration combined with a wider frontal area as an aid to low velocity killing. On the other hand, the .357 Magnum can prove to be a vastly more emphatic killer than some of our more recent low velocity tactical rifle cartridge designs although the latter have superior trajectories.Best Bear Defense Cartridges Top Bear Defense Cartridges Charge Stopping Bear Cartridges Bear Defense Ammo Bear Cartridges .45-70 Government .454 Casull .44 Magnum .375 H&H Magnum .50 …The SR-38 is available in blued and stainless finish with 4-inch and 6-inch barrel configurations. Blued models regardless of barrel length (SKUs SR38-357-4 and SR38-357-6) cost $481, while stainless models, again regardless of barrel length (SKU: SR38-357-4-SS and SR38-357-6-SS) cost $558. 10.Sep 3, 2019 · Don't think the .357 Rem Maximum is loaded by somebody named Black Dog Ammunition at the tune of $78 to $81 per 50. $57.99 per 50 (180's only) from PCI via Graf's. And it is NOT usable in a .357 Mag revolver. It'd be a custom made firearm too. In any case, no handgun round will stop anything in its tracks. Handgun Recoil Table. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction; that is one of the physical laws of our universe. This means that the momentum of a handgun's reaction will exactly equal the momentum of the bullet and powder gasses ejected from the barrel. In the shooting sports we call that reaction recoil or "kick."The .357 Magnum has a 7.7% edge in velocity. The .44 Magnum has a 69.4% edge in mass. So, even though .44 Magnum in this case is saddled with 44% more frontal surface area, it's 57% greater momentum would likely give it significantly better penetration. So in top loads, .44 Magnum look like it'll win out.The .44 Magnum has higher recoil action than the .357 due to the heavier cartridge weight and the increased diameter of the barrel. Factors such as hand strength and stance also can affect the recoil.#1 · Sep 13, 2016 (Edited by Moderator) Just wondering, which of these is better and more foolproof for self-defense? I love revolvers and have one of each, but the …Both the 357 and 44 Magnum have earned their place in the annals of firearms lore as the wheelgun calibers of choice in terms of raw power. But what exactly …Testing the Underwood .357 Magnum Barnes TAC-XP 125 gr copper hollow point VS the Underwood .44 Magnum Barnes XPB 225 gr copper hollow point in a 10% Clear B...The .357 Mag rounds generally have less recoil energy than the .44 rounds. Most of the .44 Magnum rounds show almost double the amount of recoil as the .357. However, it’s possible to find some .357 rounds with virtually the same recoil as some of the .44 Mag rounds.Sep 30, 2023 · A comparison of these two cartridges highlights a few noticeable differences. The .44 Magnum generally has a higher muzzle velocity, often exceeding 1,500 fps, whereas the .357 Magnum tends to max out around 1,450 fps. This, in turn, translates to greater energy transfer upon impact. It's not the first property to be offered in exchange for crypto, but it would be the priciest and most historic. A Renaissance mansion in the heart of Rome oozes Old World charm, ...Medicare is a critical component of healthcare, and it’s an essential piece of millions of people’s lives. With 44 million Americans currently on Medicare – and more signing up eac...Energy. Furthermore, the muzzle energy of a .357 Magnum round averages out to 530 ft-lb, while a .41 Remington Magnum round averages out to about 760 ft-lb. One way to think about this is as such: a foot-pound is a unit of energy equal to the amount of energy required to raise a weight of one pound a distance of one foot.Visit our channel! http://goo.gl/Ti5cG9In this FunwiththeGun presentation. We're comparing the 357 magnum vs. the 44 magnum. We're going to test out which...10mm vs. 357 Mag Muzzle Energy. The .357 Magnum is a powerful cartridge, but in this case it takes a narrow 2nd place to the 10mm Auto. 10mm generally packs higher muzzle energies thanks in large part to the larger bullets. Even with similar bullets, however, it appears the 10mm does slightly better.Learn about the history, ballistics, and applications of two powerful handgun cartridges: the 357 Mag and the 44 Mag. Compare their muzzle velocity, energy, recoil, and suitability …The .44 Magnum boasts greater bullet weights for deep penetration combined with a wider frontal area as an aid to low velocity killing. On the other hand, the .357 Magnum can prove to be a vastly more emphatic killer than some of our more recent low velocity tactical rifle cartridge designs although the latter have superior trajectories.Forty-four people were injured at China’s Shuiyun Water Park after a technical malfunction created a massive wave that crashed over swimmers. Amusement parks, despite their terrify...A few great guns that are chambered for .357 Magnum are: Ruger Blackhawk, Redhawk, Super Redhawk, and Super Blackhawk. These are beefy, heavy guns that are the very definition of the word ‘robust’. They’re some of the most durable and ‘I-Don’t-Give-A-S**t’ revolvers in the world and can withstand brutal use and abuse.Apr 23, 2023 ... Testing some Hornady Lever Evolution ammo in .44 mag and .357 mag! Great hunting options but could they be good for self-defense?As far as Power level go. it's 3, 4, 7. while the 357 mag hot l=hunting loads are not far behi=und the 41 in power, the 44 loads are almost twice the 41 loads. The 10mm auto was made to aproximate the 41 Mag in an auto. Much like …For uses other than big-game hunting, .357 Magnum carbines have other benefits which have nothing to do with ballistics. An 18″ .357 will hold 9+1 rounds, compared to the 6+1 of a .30-30 of the same length. Recoil is extremely mild even with the stoutest loads, so that the XS ghost ring sights never even leave the target.Add me to the .357 Mag boat. I have several .357's and one .44 Mag. The .44 gets fired occasionally, when friends want to feel a big, nasty, powerful hand cannon. However, my .357's are fired regularly at the range, carried in the woods, they're more practical, less expensive, and ammo is more readily available, both in .357 Mag and .38 Spec.Jan 2, 2021 · A comparison of two popular magnum revolver rounds based on their history, power, and practicality. Learn how the .357 Magnum is the most powerful 'normal' handgun round and the .44 Magnum is the most powerful handgun round most people will fire. Hornady Custom 10mm 155 grain XTP – 1345 feet per second. Hornady Custom 357 Magnum 158 grain XTP – 1264 feet per second. *five shot average of shots. On paper with these comparable loads, the ...The .455 Webley revolver and the .44 Magnum cartridge are both powerful and iconic firearms, but they have distinct differences in terms of power and performance. Subscribe For Promotional Offers HomeThe diameter of a .44 Special cartridge is 0.43 inches (10.922 millimeters). The diameter of a .357 Magnum cartridge is 0.357 inches (9.0678 millimeters). The .44 Special cartridge has a larger diameter than the .357 Magnum cartridge by 0.073 inches. The overall length of a cartridge determines how deep a bullet will sit in a case.If you hit a bad guy in the chest with your first shot from a .22 and he returns fire with a .357 Magnum, you could be in trouble! Thus, first shot stopping power is critical, as you may not get a second shot if the first one fails to incapacitate your opponent. ... .44 Rem. Mag. - Cor-Bon 165 grain JHP, Cor-Bon 225 grain DPX, Sig Sauer 240 ...The .44-40 Winchester and .357 Magnum cartridges are both are made for Handguns.The .44-40 Winchester cartridge has a lower muzzle than the .357 Magnum cartridge by 383 feet per second.The .44-40 Winchester has a larger diameter than the .357 Magnum by 0.071 inches.Lastly, the .44-40 Winchester cartridge has a longer length …Please Subscribe to the channel HERE: http://bit.ly/2xQ9ap2Add me on facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WHOTEEWHOAdd me on Instagram: https://www.instagram.c...Testing some Hornady Lever Evolution ammo in .44 mag and .357 mag! Great hunting options but could they be good for self-defense? Heavy clothing ballistic ge...A few key differences exist between the .45 Colt and the .357 Magnum. The .45 Colt is a much older cartridge. The .357 magnum, on the other hand, was created in 1934. The .45 Colt is a larger cartridge, measuring 11.43x33mm compared to the .357 magnum’s 9x33mm. The .45 Colt also has a significantly lower muzzle velocity, with a maximum of ...We would like to show you a description here but the site won’t allow us.The .357/44 Bain & Davis is a centerfire pistol cartridge designed in 1964 by Keith Davis, a partner and pistolsmith of the Bain & Davis Gunshop of San Gabriel, California. The purpose was to give improved velocity over the .357 Magnum by using the larger .44 Magnum case necked down to hold a 0.357 diameter bullet. ...Underwood ammo for both, the .357 Magnum is 158 gr@1,387 FPS/685 ft lbs energy, the .44 Magnum is a 200 gr@1,412 FPS/885 ft lbs energy. Both are Nosler semi ...Nov 18, 2023 · The .44-40 Winchester and .357 Magnum cartridges are both are made for Handguns.The .44-40 Winchester cartridge has a lower muzzle than the .357 Magnum cartridge by 383 feet per second.The .44-40 Winchester has a larger diameter than the .357 Magnum by 0.071 inches.Lastly, the .44-40 Winchester cartridge has a longer length than the .357 Magnum ... The 9mm uses a .355 caliber bullet and, predictably, the 357 Magnum uses a .357 caliber projectile. On top of that, both rounds came to be for material use, with the 9mm intended for military forces and the 357 Magnum for police forces. Ultimately, both rounds have faithfully served in law enforcement roles, in concealed carry roles, and far ...How do the. 357 and. 44 compare accuracy, range, and recoil-wise? .357 Mag seems to be more common and cheaper than. 44 mag. Same with. 38 Special vs. 44 Special. There's also lever guns chambered for. 45 Long Colt and. 44-40. But. 357 and. 44 is cheaper and more common as well as packing a big punch than. 45 Colt and 44-40.Yes, a .357 Magnum is generally more powerful than a .40 Caliber due to its higher muzzle energy and velocity. See 3,000+ New Gun Deals HERE. 1. What is the muzzle energy of a .357 Magnum compared to a .40 Caliber? The .357 Magnum typically has a higher muzzle energy compared to the .40 Caliber.Here are three Desert Eagles at the range. Featured is the Desert Eagle L5 in .357 magnum, Desert Eagle (burnt bronze) in .44 magnum, aand a Desert Eagle (s...
The list also includes revolver cartridges like the 38 Special, 357 Magnum, 44 Magnum, 45 Colt, and 454 Casull. As well as the more modern 30-30, 307, 356, and 375 Winchester, the 308 and 338 .... Whataburger madison tn
Feb 19, 2023 ... 357 mag vs 44-40 vs 44 mag vs 30-30 vs 45-70 vs 6.5 creedmoor vs 7mm Rem Mag - Deep Penetration Test. 3.9K views · 1 year ago ...more ...The 357 magnum and the 44 magnum are two of the most iconic rounds in American history.357 Magnum and 44 Magnum are BY FAR the 2 most popular Magnum Ammunition Rounds. THIS video looks at the benefits of BOTH!Your support is critical to our mi...Velocity. As illustrated in the chart, .357 Magnum rounds - on average - achieve a velocity of about 1290 feet per second (fps) while .45 Auto ACP rounds travel at a velocity of 940 fps. To put this into perspective, a Boeing 737 commercial airliner travels at a cruising speed of 600 mph, or 880 fps.Visit our channel! http://goo.gl/Ti5cG9In this FunwiththeGun presentation. We're comparing the 357 magnum vs. the 44 magnum. We're going to test out which...Jun 26, 2011 ... In this "basics" video I illustrate the difference between Magnum and Special cartridges, such as the .44 Magnum vs .44 Special and .357 ...The .44 Magnum has higher recoil action than the .357 due to the heavier cartridge weight and the increased diameter of the barrel. Factors such as hand strength and stance also can affect the recoil.It's time for part two of our Lever Action Rifle Series! Today, we're looking at .357 Magnum and .44 Magnum when fired from lever action rifles (in this case...Dec 13, 2023 · Power. 158-gr JSP 357 mag (left) vs 180-gr XTP 44 mag (right) They may both be magnum handgun cartridges; however, the 357 magnum and the 44 magnum are far from the same power level. According to SAAMI, the 357 magnum has a maximum pressure rating of 35,000 psi, whereas the 44 magnum has a slightly higher maximum pressure rating of 36,000 psi. Learn about some of the most cost-effective ways to level-up your Marriott elite status before the end of the year. We’re just over 260 days into 2022, and a member of the Marriott...For uses other than big-game hunting, .357 Magnum carbines have other benefits which have nothing to do with ballistics. An 18″ .357 will hold 9+1 rounds, compared to the 6+1 of a .30-30 of the same length. Recoil is extremely mild even with the stoutest loads, so that the XS ghost ring sights never even leave the target..
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